Keep It Interesting or They'll Turn the Computer Off

Elon Musk's candid conversation on DOGE, simulation theory, AI nightmares, and why cheeseburgers are humanity's greatest invention
Interview with Katie Miller | Recorded at Elon's Austin Home

In a wide-ranging conversation from his Austin home—complete with a levitating Tesla Cybertruck in the background—Elon Musk opened up about his DOGE experience, why he'd never do it again, his recurring AI nightmares, and his theory that we're all living in a simulation with exactly one job: keep it interesting enough that whoever's running the show doesn't turn off the computer.

This isn't your typical tech interview. It's personal, philosophical, occasionally hilarious, and deeply revealing about how Musk thinks about everything from government waste to the purpose of consciousness itself.

"Our one job is to keep it interesting so they don't turn the computer off."
— Elon Musk's theory on why humanity exists

DOGE: The Made-Up Department That Actually Happened

January 20th: The Roosevelt Room

The scene: Elon Musk, sworn in, handed a computer and phone in the Roosevelt Room. His first thought?

I guess I couldn't believe I was there, for the most part, it's like, it all seemed extremely surreal at the time.
— Elon Musk

The Name Was Born on the Internet

DOGE wasn't some carefully planned government initiative with months of strategy sessions. It was crowdsourced:

DOGE was a made-up name… that had been made up, I don't know, two or three months before… based on internet suggestions. I was going to call it the Government Efficiency Commission, and then someone on the internet said, "No, it should be the Department of Government Efficiency—DOGE." I'm like, "That sounds great." So we just kind of made up a department.
— Elon Musk

What DOGE Actually Accomplished

Major Achievements:

Simply requiring a valid payment code and explanation before money goes out stopped most of them. It seems insanely obvious, but roughly 2–3% of government payments really shouldn't be happening—and they're surprisingly hard to kill.
— Elon Musk

Would He Do It Again?

Short answer: No.
"I think instead of doing DOGE, I would've basically... worked on my companies essentially."

When pressed on whether he'd do it again knowing what he knows now:

They really want the money to keep flowing. So if you stop it from flowing, there's like a very strong reaction to stopping the money flowing... When you cut off the money flowing to political corruption, they lash out hard. Big time.
— Elon Musk
DOGE as a side quest: When asked about his best side quest in life, Musk laughed and said "DOGE. Probably."

The Immigration Reality: "Voter Importation"

Musk didn't mince words about what he sees as the biggest government spending issue:

The single biggest issue is the massive transfer payments going to illegal immigrants. Essentially we're paying people to come here from somewhere else, in huge numbers, including flying them in. You don't need a border wall if you're flying them in, then fast-tracking them to citizenship, making them dependent on government payments, and counting on them to vote hard left. It's basically voter importation.
— Elon Musk

The Money Magnet

If you create a gigantic money magnet—"come to America from anywhere and we'll pay you tons of money, give you lots of free stuff"—you're going to get a lot of people taking you up on that offer.
— Elon Musk

He points to specific examples: Ilhan Omar's Somali community in Minnesota, patterns in California, and local officials elected through similar demographics shifts.

Bottom line: "Basically, we just don't want to turn the country into a communist hellhole."

AI Nightmares: What Actually Keeps Elon Up at Night

When asked if anything keeps him up at night, Musk's answer was surprisingly candid:

I wouldn't say there's anything in particular keeping me up at night right now—except that. But if you ask if I wake up having nightmares? Oh, AI. Yeah. Actually... I've had a lot of AI nightmares. I had AI nightmares many nights in a row.
— Elon Musk

The Inevitable Future: Work Becomes Optional

Musk is clear about separating prediction from preference:

I just want to separate what I wish would happen from what I predict will happen, because people get confused about that. They think that what I predict is what I want. What I predict to happen is not the same as what I want to happen. If I could, I would certainly slow down AI and robotics, but I can't. It's advancing at a very rapid pace, whether I like it or not.
— Elon Musk

The Post-Work World

"Assuming the current trend of artificial intelligence and robotics continues—which seems likely—AI and robots will be able to do anything that humans want them to do, essentially. Work will be optional."

When asked what people would do with unlimited free time, Musk simply says: "People will be able to do whatever they want with their free time."

Fear Is the Mind Killer

On irrational fears:

I try not to have irrational fears. If I find an irrational fear, I squelch it. Fear is the mind killer.
— Elon Musk (quoting Dune)

The Daily Life of Elon Musk

Sleep: Precisely Measured

Musk's Sleep Data:

I tried having less than 6 hours sleep, although I'm awake more hours per day, my cognitive function is reduced.
— Elon Musk

The Context-Switching Problem

I have a lot of inbound communication. So… it's information triage. I try to segment the days so that there's not too much context switching because arguably, context switching is difficult... if you had to context switch every 3 seconds or every 30 seconds or every 3 minutes, the context switching cognitive penalty would be very high.
— Elon Musk

His companies span Tesla, X, xAI, SpaceX, and personal matters—plus random news like "people being burned alive and stuff like that."

Can't Go to Target Anymore

On doing ordinary things:

I can't go to things where there's the general public because… there's an immediate "Can I have a selfie?" line that forms. And these days, in particular, in light of Charlie Kirk's murder, there are serious security issues. It's not that I don't want to. I simply can't.
— Elon Musk

Life on hardcore mode: "You make one mistake, and you're dead. And it only takes one mistake."

Simulation Theory: Our One Job

This is where the conversation gets truly fascinating. Musk has a fully developed theory about why simulation theory makes perfect sense—and what it means for humanity:

"The most interesting outcome is the most likely. If simulation theory is accurate that makes perfect sense, because if someone is running a wide range of simulated futures they're going to stop the simulation when it gets boring."

How SpaceX Tests This Daily

When SpaceX or Tesla runs simulations to understand how a car, robot, or spaceship will work, we run thousands of them on the computer. The simulations we actually pay attention to are the most interesting ones. The simulation where everything goes perfectly on the rocket? We don't really look at that; it's fine, but boring... So we hunt for the envelope of flight paths where the rocket can actually make it to orbit without blowing up, we find those boundaries, and then when we launch the real rocket we do everything possible to stay inside them.
— Elon Musk

We're an Alien Netflix Series

We could be an alien Netflix series. That series only gets renewed if the ratings stay high. Our one job is to keep it interesting so they don't turn the computer off.
— Elon Musk

When asked if the ratings are good, Musk simply says: "Yeah."

Darwinian Selection Applied to Simulations

You can even look at it through a Darwinian lens: if you apply natural selection to simulation theory, only the most interesting simulations survive and keep running. Therefore the most interesting outcome is also the most probable one — because the alternative is instant cancellation. So really, humanity has exactly one job: keep it interesting.
— Elon Musk

What Makes Things Interesting

Musk explains the story arc principle:

It's not that interesting if everything just blows up. It's over. That's not that interesting. It's not that interesting if there's a calamity that wipes out all the humans. The show just ended. But I mean, fortunately and unfortunately, if there's drama—like war or something like that—that is interesting. You wouldn't go to a movie where everything was just perfect and stayed that way. You'd leave the theater.
— Elon Musk

He points to Trump's story arc as an example: more interesting that he lost and then won again than a straightforward victory.

Musk's life as proof: "If you were me... Would you think this is real or a simulation? And I like doing all the side quests and everything."

Starship: "One of the Most Profound Things That Ever Happened"

"Starship is the first time there's been any rocket design where full and rapid reusability is possible. This is the first design where success is in the set of possible outcomes."

V2 vs V3: 10,000 Changes

When asked about Starship versions:

We could have made V2 reusable, but there were a lot of performance improvements for V3, so it made sense. There are like 10,000 different changes between V2 and V3.
— Elon Musk

The Evolutionary Hall of Fame

Historic events fit on the evolutionary hall of fame: single-cell life, multicellular life, mitochondria, plants vs. animals, life going to land. Top 10 is life becoming multi-planetary.
— Elon Musk

And remarkably: "No AI was used to create it, so the AI will appreciate that."

Mars: The Worst Sales Pitch Ever

Musk is brutally honest about what Mars will actually be like:

People think going to Mars is an escape from Earth—like billionaires fleeing. No. Mars will be very dangerous, much less comfortable than Earth. Early settlers will have a higher risk of death. Cramped, uncomfortable. Food won't be as good. You'll work hard. It may not succeed. That's the sales pitch.
— Elon Musk

Why Both Earth and Mars Matter

Tesla is mostly about making sure life on Earth is good. xAI too. Multi-planetary means Earth's got to be good and you need another planet.
— Elon Musk

On the false dichotomy of Earth vs. Mars:

Earth is vastly better than Mars, full stop. But if we want to become a true multi-planet species (which is the only real insurance policy against extinction), Mars is literally our only viable option. It's brutally hard, but not impossible.
— Elon Musk

He quotes Konstantin Tsiolkovsky: "Earth is the cradle of humanity, but mankind cannot stay in the cradle forever."

Starbase: From Sandbar to Rocket City

Before Starbase: Nothing but a sandbar at the mouth of the Rio Grande, literally 3 feet above sea level. Now: The biggest rocket factory on Earth plus two giant launch towers.

Why "Starbase"?

We needed something inspirational. We kind of have a lot of star things, you know. So, we got Starlink, Starship. Well, where would Starship depart from? Starbase? Starbase is probably the coolest place on Earth.
— Elon Musk

And they went all the way: "We went ahead and incorporated it as an actual legal city. You don't see brand-new cities get born very often."

Space Mountain Needs an Upgrade

Disney World visits: At least 10 times, whenever at Cape Canaveral for launches. Favorite ride: Space Mountain, though "it doesn't look quite as sci-fi as it used to... it's like the day before yesterday's tomorrow."

Fashion Has Frozen: "Why Does Everything Look Like 2015?"

Musk's son Saxon made an observation that stuck:

My son Saxon said, "Why does everything look like it's 2015?" And I was like, damn, it does. Stylistically, nothing has changed in a decade. The '60s, '70s, '80s, '90s all had definitive styles. 2000s and 2010s? Less and less. We should spice it up.
— Elon Musk

The challenge: Show someone a picture from 2000 vs. 2025—hard to tell the difference.

Conspiracy Theories and Aliens

Which Conspiracies Haven't Come True?

When asked about conspiracy theories he believes in:

Which ones haven't come true at this point? We've run out.
— Elon Musk

On Aliens

Aliens? No evidence. I've asked the SpaceX senior team—no one has seen any. UFOs are just unidentified objects—could be weapons prototypes.
— Elon Musk
Suspicious fact: Neil Armstrong... Neil A spelled backwards is Alien. Coincidence? 😏

Did We Go to the Moon?

We went to the moon a few times. We didn't just go to the moon. We actually got a little bored and started playing golf on the moon. We literally did. Whacked a golf ball on the moon.
— Elon Musk

Working for Elon: Not Actually That Bad

On the misconception that he's difficult to work for:

Why would talented people work at the companies if they were mistreated? They'd leave.
— Elon Musk

Katie Miller's observation: "Everyone thinks you're a difficult person to work for. I think you're very kind. I've never heard you yell at an employee. Everyone at your companies is incredibly mission-driven."

Philosophy: Why Consciousness Matters

Is Humanity Inherently Good?

The concept of good wouldn't even exist without humanity. I do think humanity is on balance, good. I generally believe that increasing the amount of consciousness in the universe is a good thing — trying to understand the nature of the universe, which you can only do by expanding conscious awareness.
— Elon Musk

Your Atoms Have Been to the Center of a Star

A mind-bending perspective:

We started as a hydrogen gas cloud that condensed into stars, those stars exploded, the debris re-condensed into new stars, exploded again, and 13.8 billion years later here we are. One fun question is: how many times have your atoms already been at the center of a star? On average it's about three or four. And how many more times will they be? Estimates vary, but it looks like we're roughly halfway through the total lifecycle. So measured by the number of times your atoms will sit in the core of a star, we're about at the midpoint of existence.
— Elon Musk

Who Do You Look Up to Most?

Musk: "The Creator."

On God: "Well, I believe this universe came from something. People have different labels."

Social Media: Performative but Real

Social media definitely makes people more performative. At the same time, it also gives us way more raw, real-life video of things that are actually happening, and anything truly interesting instantly goes viral. So we get both: tons of people doing whatever it takes for a few extra views on TikTok, Reels, or X, and at the same time real videos that directly challenge the official narrative but are undeniably authentic.
— Elon Musk

X's Algorithm Updates

Coming in December (at time of interview):

Grok-Powered Recommendations:

The acid test for this is: Are you seeing content that you find really interesting from accounts you've never seen before? If that's happening then the algorithm is working. It should be possible for somebody to post content as a new user with no followers and if that content is excellent, then it gets seen by a lot of people.
— Elon Musk

Technology Musk Hopes Never Gets Invented

"I hope inventions that can destroy us all never get created. Obviously I hope nobody ever engineers a virus that can kill every human — that's the low-hanging fruit. More broadly, I hope we never invent anything that destroys consciousness itself."

What's Made Us Worse?

Maybe short-form video: "seems to be rotting people's brains."

Rapid-Fire: Would You Rather

Q: Would you rather save humanity from extinction on Earth or guarantee its survival on Mars?
A: False dichotomy. Earth is vastly better, but Mars is the only insurance policy.
Q: Would you rather be a Marvel superhero or a Bond villain?
A: Marvel superhero. "They did model Iron Man in the movies after me."
Iron Man Connection: Robert Downey Jr. met with Musk and toured SpaceX. Iron Man 2 was largely filmed at the SpaceX factory. "We had Scarlett Johansson doing martial arts in the lobby. And you expect me to believe this is all real? It's a simulation."
Q: Would you rather invent time travel or teleportation?
A: They're almost the same thing—both would break reality unless we're in a simulation. Time travel doesn't break a simulation.

Time Travel and Saved Games

If you think of it like a video game, you've got various saved games and you can go back and restore a saved game from a prior start point, you still have your other saved games and there are many games going on in parallel. They don't have to be consistent with each other.
— Elon Musk

Daily Life: Steak, Eggs, and Cheeseburger Supremacy

Typical Day's Food

Musk's Diet:

Cheeseburgers: A Genius Invention

If I had to say there's only one thing you can ever have for the rest of time, which admittedly would be a bit monotonous, but it would probably be a cheeseburger! Cheeseburgers are amazing! It's a genius invention.
— Elon Musk

The Sugarfish Story

Possibly the funniest moment in the interview—when Musk took his sons to an ultra-strict sushi restaurant:

The Setup: Sugarfish's menu literally says "Do not ask for soy sauce" because the chef has determined the perfect amount. You can't have more. If the chef thinks you don't need any, you can't have any.
The waiter is going around asking everyone what they want. And then it comes to Saxon, and Saxon says, "I'll have a cheeseburger."

And the waiter's like... takes a moment for the waiter to recover because no one's ever asked for a cheeseburger at this very strict sushi restaurant. Took him like 30 seconds to realize he has just been asked for a cheeseburger because you're not even allowed to ask for soy sauce. So, when he finally recovered, he said, "We don't have cheeseburgers."

And Saxon goes at the top of his voice, "What? What kind of restaurant doesn't have cheeseburgers?" Then he said, "Fine, I'll have a hamburger."
— Elon Musk

They don't have hamburgers either.

On Tiny Cheeseburgers

A deep philosophical discussion on whether tiny cheeseburgers can taste as good as big ones:

Could you make a tiny cheeseburger that's good? Of course... you're not breaking, you're not like getting any Nobel Prize with this. You can definitely make a tiny cheeseburger. It's physically possible. I'm saying it's just rare... Usually it's too much bread and it's dry... there's not enough meat in proportion to the bread.
— Elon Musk

Success rate of good tiny cheeseburgers: 1%

Fun Facts & Personal Favorites

Funniest person in real life: President Trump. "He's naturally funny. It is somewhat effortless."
Favorite age to parent: Ages 5-10
Song that instantly puts him in a good mood: "The Final Countdown" by Europe
Currently watching on TV: Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles with Little X, rewatched Dodgeball last night
Most-used emoji: The laughing emoji 😂
Dream job if not running companies: Writing video games

The $1,000 Reset Question

When asked what he'd do if he had to start over with just $1,000:

It's a bad hand. I mean, it's basically impossible for someone to have all the knowledge that I have and then be dropped down to a low-resource situation. Because the reality is that either something truly catastrophic has happened — like civilization has melted down — or I'll just be able to ask people to give me money with the promise of a high return, which is what I'm able to do right now.
— Elon Musk

His logic: Either civilization has collapsed (in which case $1,000 won't help), or civilization is intact (in which case he can convince people to fund him).

If you give me a dollar, you will get back much more than a dollar.
— Elon Musk
How he actually started: Arrived in Montreal at age 17 with $2,500 Canadian (~$2,000 US), one bag of books, one bag of clothes. That's it.

Dinner Party with History's Legends

If Musk could host a dinner with three people, dead or alive:

The Guest List:

The Menu

I think if you're going to if this is a once in a-lifetime thing, I think you'd want to have some epic 12 course meal or something like that... You want to go all out for that dinner. I think you're probably not going to serve cheeseburgers unless they want it. Maybe one of the courses could be like a tiny cheeseburger. Those don't taste as good as the big ones, though.
— Elon Musk

Key Takeaways: The Elon Musk Philosophy

Core Beliefs:

The Ultimate Musk Quote:

"Please don't delete us, we'll keep it interesting."

Final Thoughts: A Man Building Multiple Futures

What emerges from this conversation is someone acutely aware of multiple simultaneous realities:

Through it all, Musk maintains a sense of humor about the absurdity—whether it's his son demanding cheeseburgers at a strict sushi restaurant, the fact that Iron Man 2 was filmed at his factory, or the theory that we're all characters in an alien Netflix series that better maintain good ratings.

Would he do DOGE again? No. Does he have AI nightmares? Yes, many nights in a row. Does he think we're in a simulation? The evidence certainly points that way. Will humanity make it to Mars? If we keep it interesting enough.

And through all the technology, philosophy, and existential questions, one truth remains constant: cheeseburgers are a genius invention.

Based on the complete transcript from Katie Miller's interview with Elon Musk
Recorded at Elon's Austin home | Full video available on X